Comments on: Camp No http://blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/ Personal Science, Self-Experimentation, Scientific Method Wed, 23 May 2012 17:46:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: seth http://blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/#comment-391852 seth Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:40:29 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/#comment-391852 Tom, perhaps you should be more critical of Shafer. In his response -- thanks for the links -- he says: I dispute that it was called Camp No. !!! As if that mattered. As if he could possibly know that no one called it that. As for your points, I'll just say that I don't consider these two assertions: 1. US government tortured Guantanamo prisoners 2. US government bombed World Trade Center to have the same level of plausibility. Tom, perhaps you should be more critical of Shafer. In his response — thanks for the links — he says: I dispute that it was called Camp No. !!! As if that mattered. As if he could possibly know that no one called it that.

As for your points, I’ll just say that I don’t consider these two assertions:

1. US government tortured Guantanamo prisoners
2. US government bombed World Trade Center

to have the same level of plausibility.

]]> By: tom http://blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/#comment-391828 tom Sat, 13 Feb 2010 18:48:50 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/#comment-391828 Seth, your post seems ignorant and visceral. Why didn't you analyze these issues more critically before (or instead of) posting? 1. Harper's article: Jack Shafer of Slate has shown huge problems with Horton's claims about 'Camp No'. And Horton's claims require a conspiracy so large that it strains common sense. I'm guessing you don't believe Obama was born outside the US or that the US government blew up one of the WTC buildings or that LBJ killed JFK. Why would you believe Harpers on this? Original Shafer article: http://www.slate.com/id/2242942/pagenum/all/#p2 Harpers answer and Shafer reply: http://www.slate.com/id/2243294/pagenum/all/#p2 2. Yoo: I'm a lawyer and I still don't know much, if anything, about the subject of Yoo's memos. I'm guessing that you have no US Constitutional law expertise and that you don't know much about legal interpretation. Do you know that Yoo's advice to his client was incorrect about the law? And even if you do somehow know that, do you know that it was sufficiently incorrect that he should be sanctioned under normal standards for lawyers? I think you have no idea. So are you consciously suspending your normal critical process on Yoo and Horton's article because you want to send a very clear signal that you are a good torture-hater? Or are you always leaping without looking? I was just about to put my aquatic ape on an all-fat diet, but maybe I should rethink my faith in your posts. Seth, your post seems ignorant and visceral. Why didn’t you analyze these issues more critically before (or instead of) posting?

1. Harper’s article: Jack Shafer of Slate has shown huge problems with Horton’s claims about ‘Camp No’. And Horton’s claims require a conspiracy so large that it strains common sense. I’m guessing you don’t believe Obama was born outside the US or that the US government blew up one of the WTC buildings or that LBJ killed JFK. Why would you believe Harpers on this?

Original Shafer article: http://www.slate.com/id/2242942/pagenum/all/#p2

Harpers answer and Shafer reply: http://www.slate.com/id/2243294/pagenum/all/#p2

2. Yoo: I’m a lawyer and I still don’t know much, if anything, about the subject of Yoo’s memos. I’m guessing that you have no US Constitutional law expertise and that you don’t know much about legal interpretation. Do you know that Yoo’s advice to his client was incorrect about the law? And even if you do somehow know that, do you know that it was sufficiently incorrect that he should be sanctioned under normal standards for lawyers? I think you have no idea.

So are you consciously suspending your normal critical process on Yoo and Horton’s article because you want to send a very clear signal that you are a good torture-hater? Or are you always leaping without looking?

I was just about to put my aquatic ape on an all-fat diet, but maybe I should rethink my faith in your posts.

]]> By: Stephen M (Ethesis) http://blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/#comment-389493 Stephen M (Ethesis) Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:34:28 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/#comment-389493 Ghh. Torture is useless for obtaining intelligence. On the other hand, prosecuting Yoo because of his advocacy or beliefs is just one more slip into the abyss of McCarthy. Ghh. Torture is useless for obtaining intelligence.

On the other hand, prosecuting Yoo because of his advocacy or beliefs is just one more slip into the abyss of McCarthy.

]]> By: Nathan Myers http://blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/#comment-389326 Nathan Myers Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:59:37 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/#comment-389326 Solitary confinement has always been considered torture. Vic, I hope you'll look forward to your turn as torture becomes routine. Too many parking tickets? Electric shocks for you, my good man. Solitary confinement has always been considered torture.

Vic, I hope you’ll look forward to your turn as torture becomes routine. Too many parking tickets? Electric shocks for you, my good man.

]]> By: Vic http://blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/#comment-389291 Vic Fri, 05 Feb 2010 06:06:06 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/#comment-389291 To torture or not to torture is a false dichotomy. I would argue that confinement (i.e., jail) and being separated from one's loved one's is torture, certainly solitary confinement can be viewed as torture. I don't favor pulling out finger nails, but count me in support of coercive interrogation for high level terrorists with "hot" intelligence. As for John Yoo, I find it a sad sign of the weakness of our civilization that we need legal cover at all to engage in coercive interrogation against terrorists captured in afghanistan. It should be done covertly with a wink and a nudge. To torture or not to torture is a false dichotomy. I would argue that confinement (i.e., jail) and being separated from one’s loved one’s is torture, certainly solitary confinement can be viewed as torture. I don’t favor pulling out finger nails, but count me in support of coercive interrogation for high level terrorists with “hot” intelligence. As for John Yoo, I find it a sad sign of the weakness of our civilization that we need legal cover at all to engage in coercive interrogation against terrorists captured in afghanistan. It should be done covertly with a wink and a nudge.

]]> By: Cole http://blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/#comment-389251 Cole Fri, 05 Feb 2010 01:50:52 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/#comment-389251 I also enjoyed the article that you posted, Seth. For yet another look at torture/PMCs/abuse, I found this law journal article to be very insightful: http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:C5essvsFAnAJ:law.slu.edu/conf/slwa08/papers/Harvey_SYMP_08.doc+wrapping,+american+flag,+thomas+harvey&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a - Cole I also enjoyed the article that you posted, Seth. For yet another look at torture/PMCs/abuse, I found this law journal article to be very insightful: http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:C5essvsFAnAJ:law.slu.edu/conf/slwa08/papers/Harvey_SYMP_08.doc+wrapping,+american+flag,+thomas+harvey&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

- Cole

]]> By: Christine http://blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/#comment-389224 Christine Fri, 05 Feb 2010 00:09:33 +0000 http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2010/02/04/camp-no/#comment-389224 I completely agree with you on this Seth. What a disgrace that John Yoo is not in jail for crimes against humanity. And yes-- an excellent article. I completely agree with you on this Seth. What a disgrace that John Yoo is not in jail for crimes against humanity. And yes– an excellent article.

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