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	<title>Comments on: Student Power</title>
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	<link>http://blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/</link>
	<description>Personal Science, Self-Experimentation, Scientific Method</description>
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		<title>By: On Education: Why The Future Is Now &#124; alex j. mann (.com)</title>
		<link>http://blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-361969</link>
		<dc:creator>On Education: Why The Future Is Now &#124; alex j. mann (.com)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:32:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] The biggest setbacks in education include the access gap to technology and the bureaucratic, unionized culture. A classroom has been historically viewed as a single learning entity because teachers don&#8217;t have the resources to treat student needs individually. One solution could be personal computers, that with the aid of a teacher, would allow students to learn at their own pace, method and style, rather than matching the classroom average of the same factors. It&#8217;s a costly endeavor, but a shift that needs to be enforced technically, culturally and politically. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The biggest setbacks in education include the access gap to technology and the bureaucratic, unionized culture. A classroom has been historically viewed as a single learning entity because teachers don&#8217;t have the resources to treat student needs individually. One solution could be personal computers, that with the aid of a teacher, would allow students to learn at their own pace, method and style, rather than matching the classroom average of the same factors. It&#8217;s a costly endeavor, but a shift that needs to be enforced technically, culturally and politically. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Why The Future Is Now: An Interview with Alex Mann &#124; Certification Map</title>
		<link>http://blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-361965</link>
		<dc:creator>Why The Future Is Now: An Interview with Alex Mann &#124; Certification Map</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:07:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-361965</guid>
		<description>[...] The biggest setbacks in education include the access gap to technology and the bureaucratic, unionized culture. A classroom has been historically viewed as a single learning entity because teachers don&#8217;t have the resources to treat student needs individually. One solution could be personal computers, that with the aid of a teacher, would allow students to learn at their own pace, method and style, rather than matching the classroom average of the same factors. It&#8217;s a costly endeavor, but a shift that needs to be enforced technically, culturally and politically. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The biggest setbacks in education include the access gap to technology and the bureaucratic, unionized culture. A classroom has been historically viewed as a single learning entity because teachers don&#8217;t have the resources to treat student needs individually. One solution could be personal computers, that with the aid of a teacher, would allow students to learn at their own pace, method and style, rather than matching the classroom average of the same factors. It&#8217;s a costly endeavor, but a shift that needs to be enforced technically, culturally and politically. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-339105</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 01:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-339105</guid>
		<description>For law school, point #2 can be modified to, &quot;Professors teach how to be appellate clerks. Most students do not want to be appellate clerks.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For law school, point #2 can be modified to, &#8220;Professors teach how to be appellate clerks. Most students do not want to be appellate clerks.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-339058</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 00:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-339058</guid>
		<description>@Bennetta said &quot;The thousand-person lecture hall format isnâ€™t exactly flexible[.]&quot;

Right. What is the purpose of 1,000 person lecture halls, nowadays - why not just provide a lecture accessible on the web? Then you could also provide a transcript or lecture notes at the same time. This seems much more convenient, flexible, and useful to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bennetta said &#8220;The thousand-person lecture hall format isnâ€™t exactly flexible[.]&#8221;</p>
<p>Right. What is the purpose of 1,000 person lecture halls, nowadays &#8211; why not just provide a lecture accessible on the web? Then you could also provide a transcript or lecture notes at the same time. This seems much more convenient, flexible, and useful to me.</p>
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		<title>By: bennetta</title>
		<link>http://blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-339052</link>
		<dc:creator>bennetta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-339052</guid>
		<description>And ironically, the more prestigious the institution is, the more pedagogically stale it tends to be- you may disagree with me on this, Seth, but that has been my experience. 
 
Of the three institutions Iâ€™ve been to (UC Davis, Sonoma State University, and the Santa Rosa Junior College), â€œprestigeâ€ was inversely proportional to the quality of education.

At times, I honestly wondered how many professors at UCD were actually there to teach or were genuinely concerned about their students, particularly undergrads. Probably relatively few, Iâ€™m guessing. The best instructors I had usually had only masters degrees, as well.

I taught Special Education (light to moderate) and have a learning disability, myself, so Iâ€™m extremely (perhaps overly) sensitive and understanding to the problems that arise when the two brains involved on the opposite ends of a learning process are wired completely differently, want different things, or have different expectations. What I experienced at Davis vs. the JC was like night and day.

So in what ways did the two differ? The JC gave me much greater freedom to learn in a way that was appropriate for me and provided much greater interaction between teacher and student. The thousand-person lecture hall format isnâ€™t exactly flexible, nor does it lend itself well to multiple styles of learning. I canâ€™t help but think those who think itâ€™s actually effective are either insensitive to peoplesâ€™ needs or just plain donâ€™t care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And ironically, the more prestigious the institution is, the more pedagogically stale it tends to be- you may disagree with me on this, Seth, but that has been my experience. </p>
<p>Of the three institutions Iâ€™ve been to (UC Davis, Sonoma State University, and the Santa Rosa Junior College), â€œprestigeâ€ was inversely proportional to the quality of education.</p>
<p>At times, I honestly wondered how many professors at UCD were actually there to teach or were genuinely concerned about their students, particularly undergrads. Probably relatively few, Iâ€™m guessing. The best instructors I had usually had only masters degrees, as well.</p>
<p>I taught Special Education (light to moderate) and have a learning disability, myself, so Iâ€™m extremely (perhaps overly) sensitive and understanding to the problems that arise when the two brains involved on the opposite ends of a learning process are wired completely differently, want different things, or have different expectations. What I experienced at Davis vs. the JC was like night and day.</p>
<p>So in what ways did the two differ? The JC gave me much greater freedom to learn in a way that was appropriate for me and provided much greater interaction between teacher and student. The thousand-person lecture hall format isnâ€™t exactly flexible, nor does it lend itself well to multiple styles of learning. I canâ€™t help but think those who think itâ€™s actually effective are either insensitive to peoplesâ€™ needs or just plain donâ€™t care.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Clegg</title>
		<link>http://blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-338849</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Clegg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-338849</guid>
		<description>While I had a handful of good professors in college, the best were from Dr. George Ray and Dean Pusey (at Washington &amp; Lee University). Why the best? Dr. Ray had the direct studies -- we went to the U.K. to study classical British drama for a course on it. So, we saw the historical places first hand, got lectures directly from Shakespearean actors, and watched at least three dramas a week -- from among the great playwrights.

And Dean Pusey? In his 80s when I took the class in Russian lit, he first gave us a questionnaire where each student filled in our interests, aspirations, dreams, etc. 

Then, every test was geared toward where our minds were likely to head. I thought at the time I&#039;d become either a writer or filmmaker (I became a novelist, later), my tests were filled with &quot;what key scenes would you choose to keep in if you were to make a movie of this story, and what would you throw out -- and why?&quot; and various other permutations.

It made me realize what I&#039;d been missing out on in college -- someone who actually looked at where I put my energies and found a way to draw them out from me into the subject matter, and also match that subject matter with my deepest interests.

It was, hands down, the best class I ever took in my life, I thought more deeply about the subject and the work at hand than I did for nearly any other class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I had a handful of good professors in college, the best were from Dr. George Ray and Dean Pusey (at Washington &amp; Lee University). Why the best? Dr. Ray had the direct studies &#8212; we went to the U.K. to study classical British drama for a course on it. So, we saw the historical places first hand, got lectures directly from Shakespearean actors, and watched at least three dramas a week &#8212; from among the great playwrights.</p>
<p>And Dean Pusey? In his 80s when I took the class in Russian lit, he first gave us a questionnaire where each student filled in our interests, aspirations, dreams, etc. </p>
<p>Then, every test was geared toward where our minds were likely to head. I thought at the time I&#8217;d become either a writer or filmmaker (I became a novelist, later), my tests were filled with &#8220;what key scenes would you choose to keep in if you were to make a movie of this story, and what would you throw out &#8212; and why?&#8221; and various other permutations.</p>
<p>It made me realize what I&#8217;d been missing out on in college &#8212; someone who actually looked at where I put my energies and found a way to draw them out from me into the subject matter, and also match that subject matter with my deepest interests.</p>
<p>It was, hands down, the best class I ever took in my life, I thought more deeply about the subject and the work at hand than I did for nearly any other class.</p>
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		<title>By: michael vassar</title>
		<link>http://blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-338777</link>
		<dc:creator>michael vassar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-338777</guid>
		<description>Seth:  It&#039;s politically incorrect to have explicit beliefs about differences between students in ability if those beliefs have enough detail to make them actionable.  Honestly, understanding the differences between people&#039;s kinds of thinking is a whole academic specialty, a field of psychology but not seriously touched in &quot;education&quot; or &quot;educational psychology&quot; so it&#039;s unsurprising that most people are unfamiliar with it.  

Also, there are many kinds of thinking, but do you seriously not think that there is something distinctive about the kind of thinking that professors do that makes it appropriate that it be taught, if at all possible, in schools?  People have ALWAYS had many kinds of thinking, but the rise of science created one very distinctive very novel sort of world, largely by cultivating the synthesis of philosophical/mathematical and mechanical/empirical thinking.  Everyone knows that human brains don&#039;t need to be taught how to think in general, but they do need to be taught how to think scientifically, hence every culture has thought but only some have science.  

Finally, all children think, most adults mostly pattern match instead, which generally works better.  I wish that nerdy adults who knew how to think were given good instruction in how to act, play chess, and do other types of pattern matching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seth:  It&#8217;s politically incorrect to have explicit beliefs about differences between students in ability if those beliefs have enough detail to make them actionable.  Honestly, understanding the differences between people&#8217;s kinds of thinking is a whole academic specialty, a field of psychology but not seriously touched in &#8220;education&#8221; or &#8220;educational psychology&#8221; so it&#8217;s unsurprising that most people are unfamiliar with it.  </p>
<p>Also, there are many kinds of thinking, but do you seriously not think that there is something distinctive about the kind of thinking that professors do that makes it appropriate that it be taught, if at all possible, in schools?  People have ALWAYS had many kinds of thinking, but the rise of science created one very distinctive very novel sort of world, largely by cultivating the synthesis of philosophical/mathematical and mechanical/empirical thinking.  Everyone knows that human brains don&#8217;t need to be taught how to think in general, but they do need to be taught how to think scientifically, hence every culture has thought but only some have science.  </p>
<p>Finally, all children think, most adults mostly pattern match instead, which generally works better.  I wish that nerdy adults who knew how to think were given good instruction in how to act, play chess, and do other types of pattern matching.</p>
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		<title>By: seth</title>
		<link>http://blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-338681</link>
		<dc:creator>seth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 08:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-338681</guid>
		<description>Andrew, if I remember correctly you never said anything about &quot;teaching how to think&quot; to me. And you are right, my statement about nobody being aware of student differences is too strong. I have modified it. I suppose the more important point is how little allowance is/was made for student differences. The only obvious and widespread example I know of is for those  labeled learning-disabled -- then you got more time on tests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, if I remember correctly you never said anything about &#8220;teaching how to think&#8221; to me. And you are right, my statement about nobody being aware of student differences is too strong. I have modified it. I suppose the more important point is how little allowance is/was made for student differences. The only obvious and widespread example I know of is for those  labeled learning-disabled &#8212; then you got more time on tests.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderw Gelman</title>
		<link>http://blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-338659</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderw Gelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 06:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blog.sethroberts.net/2009/08/30/student-power/#comment-338659</guid>
		<description>Hey, I wish you&#039;d told me that I &quot;sounded like an idiot&quot;--I had no idea!  But I was definitely aware that &quot;students differed greatly in their talents and career goals,&quot; even if I have struggled (and continue to struggle) with how to deal with this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, I wish you&#8217;d told me that I &#8220;sounded like an idiot&#8221;&#8211;I had no idea!  But I was definitely aware that &#8220;students differed greatly in their talents and career goals,&#8221; even if I have struggled (and continue to struggle) with how to deal with this.</p>
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